The code/infringement debacle. (Updated /w Source Code)

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The code/infringement debacle. (Updated /w Source Code)

Postby hikaricore » September 19th, 2014, 3:19 pm

Note: Retron5.net will maintain a neutral stance on this matter until all the facts are known. Retro5.net can not confirm nor deny the validity of information contained within this thread as links, attachments, or unmoderated user comments. Retron5.net has no involvement in the allegations nor affiliation with those participating on either side. This will be the one and only thread permitted to discuss this information so that it doesn't splinter off into different sections of the board or an absurd number of threads. The below links contain allegations and possibly speculation. As such they may not be representative of the truth of the matter from either site of the discussion. Please refrain from direct accusations or flames in this thread or it will be locked down.

I'm just going to put this right here:

Hyperkin's RetroN 5 Console Allegedly Infringes On The Rights Of Emulator Authors - http://tinyurl.com/op8z9y5
Retron 5 source code discussion (on ASSEMbler's forum): http://tinyurl.com/ogf85nv
SNES: RetroN vs SNES9x NEXT code (76.6% of functions match) - https://imgur.com/a/T6W4e
RetroArch, Libretro core license violations: http://tinyurl.com/pb9es3x
Reddit discussion: http://tinyurl.com/nr4at8l
Source code release on Hyperkin's website: http://retron5.in/node/9

Hyperkin Responds To Accusations Of Infringing On The Rights Of Emulator Creators: http://tinyurl.com/paoj48w
Hyperkins’ Retron5 – continuing licensing problems: http://tinyurl.com/kop6447

Joystiq article - http://tinyurl.com/l8pee9v
Arcade Sushi article: http://tinyurl.com/mof8cnz
MCVUK article: http://tinyurl.com/mu6fgwy
Game Politics article: http://tinyurl.com/lha9tfl


As usual I am also attaching PDFs of the content of these pages and in the case of imgur a zip files containing the full size images. I'm the only one who will be attaching zip files for the foreseeable future so don't ask me to implement this otherwise.

~~~~~~

Source Code Update :: 09/23/2014

Please note the information below is a direct copy of what is on the Hyperkin website. Retro5.net is not affiliated with Hyperkin in any official capacity nor are we able to pass along information to them on anyone's behalf.

Original release here: http://retron5.in/node/9

RetroN 5 Software Licensing

RetroN 5 uses source code from the following open source projects:

VBA-M (both primary SVN and VBA-Next fork)
Genesis Plus GX
FCEU (FCEU-Next fork)
SNES9x (SNES9x-Next fork)

The following archive contains the source code tree for each of the aforementioned projects, verbatim as is used by RetroN5.

DOWNLOAD (updated 23 Sep 2014)

The source code for each of these projects is copyright the respective authors, who are identified in the corresponding source files. We endeavour to abide by the terms and conditions of each of the corresponding open source licenses. Should you be one of the developers or a direct legal representative of one of the copyright holders of any of the aforementioned projects and feel that the software is being used in violation of its license then please get in touch with us via [url=mailto:lawrence@hyperkin.com]email[/url] to discuss the matter further.


Below in the forum attachments I am mirroring this source code for archival purposes. This will not be removed even if the source code changes, however new updates may be attached as well.

Purported responses from Hyperkin thus far:

Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:20 pm
HK Mktg wrote:Here's a response from one of our developers:

It has always been our intention to release the relevant source code for the open source emulators used within RetroN 5. We have not been as quick as we could have been, since we have been busy improving the RetroN 5 user experience. The relevant source code has now been released. From this point forward we will not only keep our copy of this code updated for those who wish to obtain the latest version, but also submit patches for any fixes that we implement back to the original projects so that the entire community may benefit. Hyperkin will continue to endeavor to fulfill the licenses of any project used within RetroN 5 and any other software we write.


Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:36 am
Retron Tèch wrote:I'd like to clarify one point regarding the allegations over at libretro.com: we are not using any of RetroArch in our "frontend" (libretron.so). While it is true that a few ASM functions from RetroArch were previously found in our frontend library, these were merely remnants of old test code which we unfortunately forgot to remove. The offending code has been removed as of the v2.0 update. We're sorry that this code was left in the binary up until recently; it was merely an oversight on our part. Furthermore as you will see from the source release of the emulator cores, we have our own interface between the frontend and the core plugins, totally different from that used by RetroArch itself.

As our frontend does not include any code from the RetroArch frontend then it does not fall under GPLv3 as they claim, and thus is not bound by any of the anti "TIVO-ization" stuff.
Attachments
ContinuingLicensingProblems.pdf
(177.04 KiB) Downloaded 218 times
HyperkinResponds.pdf
(1.12 MiB) Downloaded 215 times
RetroN5Source-20140923.zip
(1.67 MiB) Downloaded 184 times
RetroArch.pdf
(592.77 KiB) Downloaded 320 times
Album T6W4e - Imgur.zip
(1.09 MiB) Downloaded 191 times
imgur.pdf
(1.11 MiB) Downloaded 237 times
alleged infringement.pdf
(1.26 MiB) Downloaded 261 times
Last edited by hikaricore on September 30th, 2014, 3:34 pm, edited 11 times in total.
Reason: Added more articles
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Re: The code/infringement debacle.

Postby dashv » September 20th, 2014, 12:33 am

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Re: The code/infringement debacle.

Postby hikaricore » September 20th, 2014, 2:40 am

Here's a more comprehensive overview of the allegations:

http://www.libretro.com/index.php/retro ... iolations/

Ill update the main post and provide a archival PDF tomorrow.
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Re: The code/infringement debacle.

Postby Failrunner » September 21st, 2014, 1:08 pm

It looks to be true but I hope it gets straightened out the right way. I never thought they wrote there own emulators from scratch so i'm not surprised.
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Re: The code/infringement debacle.

Postby HK Mktg » September 23rd, 2014, 1:20 pm

Here's a response from one of our developers:

It has always been our intention to release the relevant source code for the open source emulators used within RetroN 5. We have not been as quick as we could have been, since we have been busy improving the RetroN 5 user experience. The relevant source code has now been released. From this point forward we will not only keep our copy of this code updated for those who wish to obtain the latest version, but also submit patches for any fixes that we implement back to the original projects so that the entire community may benefit. Hyperkin will continue to endeavor to fulfill the licenses of any project used within RetroN 5 and any other software we write.
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Re: The code/infringement debacle.

Postby hikaricore » September 23rd, 2014, 2:11 pm

HK Mktg wrote:Here's a response from one of our developers:

It has always been our intention to release the relevant source code for the open source emulators used within RetroN 5. We have not been as quick as we could have been, since we have been busy improving the RetroN 5 user experience. The relevant source code has now been released. From this point forward we will not only keep our copy of this code updated for those who wish to obtain the latest version, but also submit patches for any fixes that we implement back to the original projects so that the entire community may benefit. Hyperkin will continue to endeavor to fulfill the licenses of any project used within RetroN 5 and any other software we write.


Glad to see a response like this!

Y'all should probably reach out to LibRetro: http://www.libretro.com/ And let them know since they're in torch and pitchfork mode right now. Based on their descriptions of certain licenses you'll probably have to open up the console to user access and updates without the proprietary format you've been using until now. I could be wrong about that but from what I've read the current state of the Retron 5 is a problem.
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Re: The code/infringement debacle.

Postby dashv » September 23rd, 2014, 9:20 pm

hikaricore wrote:
HK Mktg wrote:Here's a response from one of our developers:

It has always been our intention to release the relevant source code for the open source emulators used within RetroN 5. We have not been as quick as we could have been, since we have been busy improving the RetroN 5 user experience. The relevant source code has now been released. From this point forward we will not only keep our copy of this code updated for those who wish to obtain the latest version, but also submit patches for any fixes that we implement back to the original projects so that the entire community may benefit. Hyperkin will continue to endeavor to fulfill the licenses of any project used within RetroN 5 and any other software we write.


Glad to see a response like this!

Y'all should probably reach out to LibRetro: http://www.libretro.com/ And let them know since they're in torch and pitchfork mode right now. Based on their descriptions of certain licenses you'll probably have to open up the console to user access and updates without the proprietary format you've been using until now. I could be wrong about that but from what I've read the current state of the Retron 5 is a problem.


You are no doubt refering to the "Tivo-ization" clause of GPL3 and the non-comercial clause of the Snes9X core. Yeah, those are pretty cut and dry. I can't wait to see how Hyperkin addresses those. But providing sources for what they have used to date is a good first step.
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Re: The code/infringement debacle. (Updated /w Source Code)

Postby hikaricore » September 23rd, 2014, 9:25 pm

Yep. Pretty much the only mechanism they can use to keep people from just putting roms on it (which isn't really much of a point with patches now) is a major factor in their non-compliance.
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Re: The code/infringement debacle. (Updated /w Source Code)

Postby dashv » September 23rd, 2014, 10:52 pm

hikaricore wrote:Yep. Pretty much the only mechanism they can use to keep people from just putting roms on it (which isn't really much of a point with patches now) is a major factor in their non-compliance.


Not to mention it becoming a rom dumper. :)
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Re: The code/infringement debacle. (Updated /w Source Code)

Postby hikaricore » September 23rd, 2014, 11:18 pm

I mean it's already been rooted. One simply needs to write software to achieve this.
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